News
Navigation
Other Issues
This Issue
- Front page
- News
- Sports
- Opinions
- Intermission
- Dining Guide
- Night Life Guide
- Careers
- Features
- Classifieds
Buy
SMS
RSS feeds
Comments about "Unearthing false memories"
<< Back to Unearthing false memories
17 Comments on this article:
There is no such thing as “repressed memory recovery” or "False Memory Syndrome." The vast majority of mental health professionals do not recognized these terms, and neither is listed in the DSM-IV. These are ignorant terms made up by people who want to deny that the human mind has the power to block trauma, shame, and pain from consciousness in order to survive emotionally and sometimes physically. It has been proven through abuser confessions, eye-witnesses, and other criminal evidence that people have experienced memory repression for incest.
Loftus's "Shopping Mall Experiment" does nothing but prove that family members have great power over the mind of a small child and even adult children, and can persuade reality. In the 'shopping mall' study, parents lied to their children about being lost in a mall. This demonstrates how many parents and siblings have talked true victims of incest into retracting their accounts of the abuse.
Loftus is disingenuous to say there is no real scientific evidence for repressing trauma. Not only is this a valid mental disorder, listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, but there are hundreds, perhaps thousands of studies which show the existence of it. There are even Holocaust survivors who have experienced total repression of their years in prison camps.
Loftus bases herself in part on the fact that she says she was molested as a child by a baby sitter and did not forget it. I have news for Ms. Loftus. She was molested by a non-family member, there was no rape, she did not suffer trauma. She was not repeatedly sexually abused by a parent. She did not experience pleasure with a parent, which leads to deep shame (enough to block it out). She did not have a knife to her throat telling her to keep the secret or she would be killed (death threats are associated with amnesia). Loftus did not have a mother who protected the sexual perpetrator for years which leads to silence and cover-ups in the home. Loftus did not have to bury her secret in order to survive in the same home as her perpetrator. Loftus ignores all the research that does not agree with her opinion. She also ignores proven cases of Dissociative Amnesia.
In the past 10 years, science has advanced far beyond the idea that "There’s no real scientific evidence that we can take years of brutalization and bury them in the subconscious."
Twenty studies now show that recovered memories of child sex abuse can even be corroborated: http://dynamic.uoregon.edu/%7Ejjf/suggestedrefs.html
And there's now a listing of over 100 corroborated recovered memory cases at:
http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Taubman_Center/Recovmem/Archive.html
Fortunately, we are always at choice. Do we believe all claims by a well-known invited speaker with a PhD? Or just those that make sense to us. Do we do any fact-checking? Do we take "comments" seriously?
For example, Marina, who already posted, made an excellent point about Dr. Loftus's "Shopping Mall Experiment."
This study is online at http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/Papers/Py104/loftus.mem.html
Check it out. See if you can figure out (1) just how "false" the false memories were, and (2) how many subjects after they were debriefed, thought "false" memory was true.
In the past 10 years, science has advanced far beyond the idea that "There’s no real scientific evidence that we can take years of brutalization and bury them in the subconscious."
Twenty studies now show that recovered memories of child sex abuse can even be corroborated: http://dynamic.uoregon.edu/%7Ejjf/suggestedrefs.html
And there's now a listing of over 100 corroborated recovered memory cases at:
http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Taubman_Center/Recovmem/Archive.html
Fortunately, we are always at choice. Do we believe all claims by a well-known invited speaker with a PhD? Or just those that make sense to us. Do we do any fact-checking? Do we take "comments" seriously?
For example, Marina, who already posted, made an excellent point about Dr. Loftus's "Shopping Mall Experiment."
This study is online at http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/Papers/Py104/loftus.mem.html
Check it out. See if you can figure out (1) just how "false" the false memories were, and (2) how many subjects after they were debriefed, thought "false" memory was true.
In the past 10 years, science has advanced far beyond the idea that "There’s no real scientific evidence that we can take years of brutalization and bury them in the subconscious."
Twenty studies now show that recovered memories of child sex abuse can even be corroborated: http://dynamic.uoregon.edu/%7Ejjf/suggestedrefs.html
And there's now a listing of over 100 corroborated recovered memory cases at:
http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Taubman_Center/Recovmem/Archive.html
Fortunately, we are always at choice. Do we believe all claims by a well-known invited speaker with a PhD? Or just those that make sense to us. Do we do any fact-checking? Do we take "comments" seriously?
For example, Marina, who already posted, made an excellent point about Dr. Loftus's "Shopping Mall Experiment."
This study is online at http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/Papers/Py104/loftus.mem.html
Check it out. See if you can figure out (1) just how "false" the false memories were, and (2) how many subjects after they were debriefed, thought "false" memory was true.
What the...
"Despite their setbacks, however, Loftus expressed measured optimism about false memories. She cited one experiment in which participants were duped into thinking they had memories of disliking strawberry ice cream as children. These findings, Loftus said, could lead to new weight-loss programs to combat rising obesity."
Seriously? Is one to read this to suggest that this researcher *suggests* implanting false memories of, e.g., disliking strawberry ice cream in order to bring about weight loss? Presumably, it couldn't happen with consent: "hey, doc, implant this false memory in me" is hardly consistent with the presence of a false memory. And then it isn't ethical in the slightest. Not even close.
"She cited one experiment in which participants were duped into thinking they had memories of disliking strawberry ice cream as children."
Uh, isn't that considered 'child abuse'?
I would have thought the recent cases surrounding the validity of sexual abuse and cover ups within the church might have put much of this misinformation to rest. The False Memory Syndrome syndrome doesn't fit the definition of a syndrome, was invented by a lay organization, may of whom were also accused of sexual abuse.
I had given academics credit to do more research before believing in theories that aren't reproducible, scientific, and so fraught with error. She has a background of ethical problems that have forced her resignation from professional associations and universities. Her field is forensics. She's not someone I consider credible.
One thing she did do well was find a good publicist.
It seems that memory researchers, such as Dr Elizabeth Loftus, continue to be doubted by people who still believe that memories of a history of years of childhood sexual abuse can not be recalled for decades on end, only to surface into consciousness in pristine form well into adulthood, usually with the suggestive help of a therapist who believes in the dated Freudian notion of repressed memories.
Adriaan Mak
There seem to be two beliefs about repressed/recovered memories. One is that memories of sexual trauma to children are often repressed and can be recovered through therapy. The other is that almost anyone can recover "memories" of events that never happened through suggestive therapy (hypnosis, guided imagery, etc).
I would like to suggest a third alternative that I call "triggered memories." One of our staff member at ReligiousTolernace.org experienced this third type of recall.
She was molested by a man in his house when she was a child. She forgot all about the event. But, after seeing the perpetrator's picture in the paper, the memories came flooding back in an instant. Later, she linked up with over a dozen women who had never forgotten the abuse. She was interviewed by the prosecutor who verified details of the interior of the perpetrator's house and his MO. All of the women pursued charges against the perpetrator. He pleaded guilty to all charges. He was given a two year sentence for each crime -- a punishment that seemed reasonable. Unfortunately, the judge ordered that they all be served concurrently -- a decision that I feel was not fair.
My feeling is that a lot of what people think are recovered memories are simply triggered memories of the type experienced by our staff member.
So I think we have three types of memories:
- those that have always been present. They are reasonably accurate, although there are often distortions.
- false memories unrelated to real events that are laboriously created over many months of suggestive therapy.
- triggered memories that have been forgotten but lie just below consciousness and can be triggered into consciousness. They return in an instant and are almost as reliable as always-present memories.
I have a hunch that eventually, people will realize that these three types of "memories" exist and cover all or almost all cases. Unfortunately, a lot of people worship the number 2 and are reluctant to see a third alternative.
Regards
Bruce Robinson
Coordinator
ReligiousTolerance.org
See: http://religioustolerance.org/rmt.htm
Adriaan Mak,
It amazes me that people like yourself continue to deny that Dissociative Amnesia is a very real occurrence. This is like denying cancer. The only the difference is that cancer can be seen in a laboratory, in x-rays, in MRIs, and even on the skin. Both cancer and Dissociative Amnesia have been documented, both are listed in medical books as a valid diagnosis, and both have ample amounts of research to back up their existence. Maybe it is time you update and educate yourself on this matter because your denial of reality can negatively affect victims of child sexual and physical abuse.
Bruce Robinson,
"Triggered memories" is already a known fact. Not all previously repressed memories are remembered in therapy. On the contrary, a large amount are not. Many people remember childhood sexual abuse after a triggering event and outside of therapy. Your staff member may or may not have experienced Dissociative Amnesia. This would depend on many factors, especially if there was a secret involved, if there was trauma, if the child was not helped by an adult who knew about the abuse, if there were death threats, and many other contributing elements.
As a psychotherapist who has heard many clients’ experiences of extreme abuse, I cannot help but be affected by folks who appear unwilling to grasp the enormity of understanding memory. They appear to have no desire to want to explore and support those who are suffering so deeply from heinous mal treatment in the hands of those who are seen as caretakers.
Two of many peer-reviewed articles that I would recommend that are excellent guides to help those who are confused by the polarization of this topic in part fuelled by Elizabeth Loftus are:
http://www.trauma-pages.com/a/nijenhuis-2004.php
http://www.trauma-pages.com/a/vanderk2.php
Larmine
With reference to Freud, Dr. Loftus expresses an interesting opinion--that accusations may be result of the influence of unconscious fantasy on memory.
She wrote in The Myth of Repressed Memories, 1994, p. 90:
"Only recently when some therapists of various theoretical persuasions and personal motives began to completely ignore the psychodynamic influence of unconscious fantasy on their patient’s memories did the current epidemic of ‘abuse memories’ take root and the ‘psychology of the victim’ begin to flourish in our society. Freud would be turning over in his grave if he knew what these therapists have done to oversimplify distort and cheapen his complex theory of the mind to suit their personal agendas.
Frankly, I think that a person who feels that accusations of incest and trauma are a "result of the influence of unconscious fantasy on memory" are pretty disturbed themselves and need to look at their own psyche.
Having a large sexual organ shoved down the throat or being threatened with death with a knife are not subconscious "fantasies." The FMS proponents have never addressed the fact that their 'fantasy' theory does not groove with physical assault and frightening intimidation by a parent.
Given Valencia's 5/16 story, there's much that Dr. Loftus did not mention during her presentation at Jordan Hall.
For example:
Thus a young woman who is sexually attracted to her father may try to repress her disturbing incestuous desires. But her behavior may indicate that these feelings are not completely forgotten. The woman may pause or fumble for words when discussing certain things about her father and she may show other signs of anxiety such as sweating or blushing.
--- Wortman, C. and Loftus, E. Psychology. (1981) Alfred A. Knopf: New York, p. 203.
Most of the time, perhaps 99 percent of the time, the defendant is guilty; his screams are the final protest of a human being about to lose his most precious possession, his freedom.
---Loftus, E. and Ketcham, K. (1991). Witness for the Defence, p. 72.
People suggest false memories to themselves?????
Q Are we in agreement that there was no suggestion by anyone or anything to Mr. Erickson that he or Mr. Ferguson committed this crime? Are we in agreement on that?
A The only suggestion was in the mind of Mr. Erickson.
Q That’s not a suggestion
A Yes, it –it can be auto suggestion.
Q Suggesting it to himself”
A Exactly. It’s called auto suggestion.
Q Well, how about this then. There was no external suggestion.
A None that I saw. Correct.
--- State of Missouri v. Ryan William Ferguson, Case No. 04CR165368-01, (2005, October, 21) In the Circuit Court of Boone County, Missouri, Thirteenth Judicial Circuit, Division III, Honorable Ellen S. Roper, Judge, Cross examination of Elizabeth Loftus by Mr. Crane.
"I feel like Oskar Schindler, “ Loftus muses, referring to the German financier who rescued doomed Jews from the Nazis. 'There is this desperate drive to work as fast as I can."
--- Kahn, J. P. (1994, December 14). Trial by memory: Stung by daughters' claims of abuse, a writer lashes back. Boston Globe , p. 80.
Q. And isn’t it true that you have, uh, identified yourself, uh, as somewhat of a crusader for what we refer to as the falsely accused?
A. Uh, I do care an awful lot about the falsely accused, yes.
Q. And haven’t you made public statements and referred to yourself as the Oscar Schindler of [the] falsely accused?
A. That, that is absolutely false. It’s been taken out context and distorted.
--- Loftus, E. (1998, April 27). Testimony. Rodriguez et al. v. Perez et al. King County Superior Court Cause No.: 98-2-07404-3
Thus a young woman who is sexually attracted to her father may try to repress her disturbing incestuous desires. But her behavior may indicate that these feelings are not completely forgotten. The woman may pause or fumble for words when discussing certain things about her father and she may show other signs of anxiety such as sweating or blushing.
--- Wortman, C. and Loftus, E. Psychology. (1981) Alfred A. Knopf: New York, p. 203.
Some who question the authenticity of the memories of abuse do so in part because of the intensity and sincerity of the accused persons who deny the abuse . . . the current denials of those accused of sexual abuse are not proof that the allegations are false.
--- Loftus, E. (1993). The reality of repressed memories. American Psychologist, 48, 518-537. http://faculty.washington.edu/eloftus/Articles/lof93.htm
Most of the time, perhaps 99 percent of the time, the defendant is guilty; his screams are the final protest of a human being about to lost his most precious possession, his freedom.
--- Loftus, E. and Ketcham, K. (1991). Witness for the Defense. St. Martin’s Press: New York, p. 72.
Q Are we in agreement that there was no suggestion by anyone or anything to Mr. Erickson that he or Mr. Ferguson committed this crime? Are we in agreement on that?
A The only suggestion was in the mind of Mr. Erickson.
Q That’s not a suggestion
A Yes, it –it can be auto suggestion.
Q Suggesting it to himself”
A Exactly. It’s called auto suggestion.
Q Well, how about this then. There was no external suggestion.
A None that I saw. Correct.
--- State of Missouri v. Ryan William Ferguson, Case No. 04CR165368-01, (2005, October, 21) In the Circuit Court of Boone County, Missouri, Thirteenth Judicial Circuit, Division III, Honorable Ellen S. Roper, Judge, Cross examination of Elizabeth Loftus by Mr. Crane.
"I feel like Oskar Schindler, “ Loftus muses, referring to the German financier who rescued doomed Jews from the Nazis. 'There is this desperate drive to work as fast as I can."
--- Kahn, J. P. (1994, December 14). Trial by memory: Stung by daughters' claims of abuse, a writer lashes back. Boston Globe , p. 80.
Q. And isn’t it true that you have, uh, identified yourself, uh, as somewhat of a crusader for what we refer to as the falsely accused?
A. Uh, I do care an awful lot about the falsely accused, yes.
Q. And haven’t you made public statements and referred to yourself as the Oscar Schindler of [the] falsely accused?
A. That, that is absolutely false. It’s been taken out context and distorted.
--- Loftus, E. (1998, April 27). Testimony. Rodriguez et al. v. Perez et al. King County Superior Court Cause No.: 98-2-07404-3
Thus a young woman who is sexually attracted to her father may try to repress her disturbing incestuous desires. But her behavior may indicate that these feelings are not completely forgotten. The woman may pause or fumble for words when discussing certain things about her father and she may show other signs of anxiety such as sweating or blushing.
--- Wortman, C. and Loftus, E. Psychology. (1981) Alfred A. Knopf: New York, p. 203.
Some who question the authenticity of the memories of abuse do so in part because of the intensity and sincerity of the accused persons who deny the abuse . . . the current denials of those accused of sexual abuse are not proof that the allegations are false.
--- Loftus, E. (1993). The reality of repressed memories. American Psychologist, 48, 518-537. http://faculty.washington.edu/eloftus/Articles/lof93.htm
Most of the time, perhaps 99 percent of the time, the defendant is guilty; his screams are the final protest of a human being about to lost his most precious possession, his freedom.
--- Loftus, E. and Ketcham, K. (1991). Witness for the Defense. St. Martin’s Press: New York, p. 72.
Q Are we in agreement that there was no suggestion by anyone or anything to Mr. Erickson that he or Mr. Ferguson committed this crime? Are we in agreement on that?
A The only suggestion was in the mind of Mr. Erickson.
Q That’s not a suggestion
A Yes, it –it can be auto suggestion.
Q Suggesting it to himself”
A Exactly. It’s called auto suggestion.
Q Well, how about this then. There was no external suggestion.
A None that I saw. Correct.
--- State of Missouri v. Ryan William Ferguson, Case No. 04CR165368-01, (2005, October, 21) In the Circuit Court of Boone County, Missouri, Thirteenth Judicial Circuit, Division III, Honorable Ellen S. Roper, Judge, Cross examination of Elizabeth Loftus by Mr. Crane.
"I feel like Oskar Schindler, “ Loftus muses, referring to the German financier who rescued doomed Jews from the Nazis. 'There is this desperate drive to work as fast as I can."
--- Kahn, J. P. (1994, December 14). Trial by memory: Stung by daughters' claims of abuse, a writer lashes back. Boston Globe , p. 80.
Q. And isn’t it true that you have, uh, identified yourself, uh, as somewhat of a crusader for what we refer to as the falsely accused?
A. Uh, I do care an awful lot about the falsely accused, yes.
Q. And haven’t you made public statements and referred to yourself as the Oscar Schindler of [the] falsely accused?
A. That, that is absolutely false. It’s been taken out context and distorted.
--- Loftus, E. (1998, April 27). Testimony. Rodriguez et al. v. Perez et al. King County Superior Court Cause No.: 98-2-07404-3
Thus a young woman who is sexually attracted to her father may try to repress her disturbing incestuous desires. But her behavior may indicate that these feelings are not completely forgotten. The woman may pause or fumble for words when discussing certain things about her father and she may show other signs of anxiety such as sweating or blushing.
--- Wortman, C. and Loftus, E. Psychology. (1981) Alfred A. Knopf: New York, p. 203.
Some who question the authenticity of the memories of abuse do so in part because of the intensity and sincerity of the accused persons who deny the abuse . . . the current denials of those accused of sexual abuse are not proof that the allegations are false.
--- Loftus, E. (1993). The reality of repressed memories. American Psychologist, 48, 518-537. http://faculty.washington.edu/eloftus/Articles/lof93.htm
Most of the time, perhaps 99 percent of the time, the defendant is guilty; his screams are the final protest of a human being about to lost his most precious possession, his freedom.
--- Loftus, E. and Ketcham, K. (1991). Witness for the Defense. St. Martin’s Press: New York, p. 72.
Q Are we in agreement that there was no suggestion by anyone or anything to Mr. Erickson that he or Mr. Ferguson committed this crime? Are we in agreement on that?
A The only suggestion was in the mind of Mr. Erickson.
Q That’s not a suggestion
A Yes, it –it can be auto suggestion.
Q Suggesting it to himself”
A Exactly. It’s called auto suggestion.
Q Well, how about this then. There was no external suggestion.
A None that I saw. Correct.
--- State of Missouri v. Ryan William Ferguson, Case No. 04CR165368-01, (2005, October, 21) In the Circuit Court of Boone County, Missouri, Thirteenth Judicial Circuit, Division III, Honorable Ellen S. Roper, Judge, Cross examination of Elizabeth Loftus by Mr. Crane.
"I feel like Oskar Schindler, “ Loftus muses, referring to the German financier who rescued doomed Jews from the Nazis. 'There is this desperate drive to work as fast as I can."
--- Kahn, J. P. (1994, December 14). Trial by memory: Stung by daughters' claims of abuse, a writer lashes back. Boston Globe , p. 80.
Q. And isn’t it true that you have, uh, identified yourself, uh, as somewhat of a crusader for what we refer to as the falsely accused?
A. Uh, I do care an awful lot about the falsely accused, yes.
Q. And haven’t you made public statements and referred to yourself as the Oscar Schindler of [the] falsely accused?
A. That, that is absolutely false. It’s been taken out context and distorted.
--- Loftus, E. (1998, April 27). Testimony. Rodriguez et al. v. Perez et al. King County Superior Court Cause No.: 98-2-07404-3
Given Valencia's 5/16 story, I guess there's a lot more that Dr. Loftus didn't mention in her presentation. For example:
Thus a young woman who is sexually attracted to her father may try to repress her disturbing incestuous desires. But her behavior may indicate that the feeling are not coletely forgotten. The woman may pause or fumble for words when discussing certain things about her father and she may show other signs of anxiety such as sweating or blushing
---Wortman, C. and Loftus, E. Psychology (1981). Alfred A. Knopf: New York, p. 203.
Again and Again.
Loftus forgets to mention that there is no scientific proof what so ever for - her quote: “repressed memory recovery”.
And YES, ofcourse, anyone so also therapists can implant false memories about what you had for breakfast, that you were in a Disney Park as a child insted of a Bugs Bunny Park, that you were lost in a shopping mall as a child and so on. All her own and a lot of other articles give proof of that. Beside the fact that it is also a widespread common experience in the general population. And ofcourse this kind of research is for great importance for the legal justice system in the sense of eyewitness testemony.
But what she (and other FMSF groupies), FORGETS to mention, is the amount of scientific research that it is NOT possible - to let people believe they had a serious operation as a child or had an other serious traumatic event.
So there is no proof what so ever for creating false memories, by anyone or therapists, in that sense.
Except for the clients/patients and who post a serious problem - and there are a lot of them out there -, namely the patients/clients who are attention seekers and fake a disease and make up a life story.
They polutte so called false memory research as serious research on traumatization.
But, let alone a scientist, can draw the conclusion based on this kind of research, that if it is possible to let people make believe they had a strawberry for breakfast instead of peanutbutter, that serious traumatic events which did not happen can also be implanted in people (except the one's already mentioned above).
That's not science, that is bad science. Not too say, a fake and junk science and publicity seeking attention behaviour for own personal glory. Sounds familiar to me - as in attention seeking patients faking a disease.
My two eurocents.
Rectification:
Ofcourse repressed memory does exist!!!
But it's a term so often used by counterparts (as Loftus and FMSF) I got mixed up in emotions, but ofcourse it does exist! And it is so obvious and common sense I didn't even think about it. Sorry for the mistake.
Some say that the mall study isnt credible because it only shows how much parents have an effect on a young persons mind, but in the Ferguson case, are you saying that the police did not have the same effect when shaping the memory of Charles Erickson? It seems that the police would have the same influence in a young adults memory as the parents do on their children.